Brand Currency
Brand Currency is the podcast where branding actually makes sense.
Hosted by Charles and Jonsi McGill, this show breaks down how to build a brand that not only looks good, but works. Whether you're just starting out or scaling up, we talk design, messaging, confidence, and strategy in a way that’s clear, honest, and real. No fluff. No gimmicks. Just real conversations about the moves that grow brands and the mindset it takes to lead them.
Brand Currency
Building A Business With Your Spouse | Ep. 12
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People love the idea of building a business with your spouse, right up until it’s time to decide who leads, who answers the email, and how you talk to each other when you disagree. We get honest about what it really takes to be married and be business partners at the same time, including the parts that look great on camera and the parts that absolutely do not.
We start with our backstory, from the season where Charles is a high school principal and Jonsi is holding down the home, to the stress that pushed us into a major pivot. We talk leadership, culture, and why “branding” is not just a logo. It’s the environment, the standards, and the signals you send every day. That journey shapes how we think about entrepreneurship, family business decisions, and protecting your health while you chase a vision.
Then we get practical about couple entrepreneurship: launching an in-home preschool, learning marketing, and figuring out a real division of labor based on strengths. We share the role friction that shows up when one person lives by schedules and the other lives by energy, plus the Home Depot story that sums up our whole dynamic. From there, we break down communication, respect, tone, and the difference between CEO mode and spouse mode, along with the tricky truth that “unplugging” is hard when your business is always on your mind.
If you’re building a business as a couple, or you’re thinking about it, hit play and take notes. Subscribe for more branding and business clarity, share this with another couple who needs it, and leave a review with the biggest challenge you’re working through right now.
Thanks for listening to Brand Currency, where we have honest conversations about branding, business, and what it really takes to build a brand that people trust.
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Marriage Plus Business Partnership
SpeakerOkay, so I tell people sometimes that I got two wives, right? I mean, you know, it's a it's a joke, right? And and and basically I'm saying, uh, you know, one is the love of my life, right? And the other uh is my business partner. And they both just so happen to be named Jonsi. You know what I mean by that?
Speaker 2Yes, because you know, we're more than just a married couple, we're business partners. So, you know, we have this foundation of love and foundation of business, and we're building them both at the same time.
SpeakerYes. And you make it sound like so, like, you know, like romanticized. Okay, there we go. That laugh told the truth. Yeah, we know, we know that it could be uh, you know, it could definitely have some, some, some really highs, high highs and some low lows, right? And you know, and I I think that it's it'd be good for us to kind of talk through, you know, kind of like what those things are. We can encourage some people, let some people know, you know, um what the what the real is. What do you think?
Speaker 2I think it's great. I feel like sometimes people feel like if they can work together well in their relationship, they can work together well in business, and sometimes it works, sometimes not so much, but it happens to work for us. So I'm looking forward to sharing it.
Why Working As A Couple Works
Speaker 5This is the brand. This is the boss, this is the pay. Charles and John's a don't chase trends, brand currency for perfect teams.
SpeakerWelcome to the brand currency podcast, where we break down branding and design in a way that actually makes sense for your business. My name is Charles McGill, and I am joined by my lovely co-host.
Speaker 2Hi, I'm Jonsi McGill, his wife and partner in business.
SpeakerThat's right. And that's what we're gonna talk about today. We're gonna talk about this um, you know, what you just said. You say wife and partner in business. Um, and you know, those things don't always go together. Although, you know, people assume that they do, right? Because you you see it working well, um, but it doesn't always work well. Um, but it it has worked well for us. Um, and maybe we should, you know, share with them maybe the backstory, like, you know, kind of like what led to us uh going all in together in business.
Speaker 2Man, from way back.
unknownYeah.
SpeakerYou want to tell the story, or did oh no, babe.
Speaker 2You tell the story way better. You know, I'll be chapping in, you'll get frustrated.
SpeakerYeah, you be skipping and stuff. So
From Principal Life To California Move
Speakeryeah, so it started off with uh with us. Uh actually, I was a high school principal um and out in California, and my wife was a stay-at-home um mom. And that had that had pretty much been the plan. We we we had decided from the time pretty much that you got pregnant with CJ that that was going to be our dynamic. Um you were working at AT ⁇ T when we first met. That's how we met. That's how we met. Um, and um when once we found out that you were pregnant, uh, we we started to kind of think through a plan where you would eventually stop working. Because at some point, you'd obviously would have to stop working, at least for maternity leave.
Speaker 2But it was always my dream to stay at home with my kids because my mom stayed with me during the first few years of my life, and I felt like that was really impactful. Yeah. So I wanted to do that for my children and just, you know, take care of my family, hold us down in that way.
SpeakerAbsolutely. And now so that was clear to me. That was clear to me. I knew that there was a finite time that you would be working, um, and that after you stopped, that I would have the responsibility of taking care of the family. Um, so we planned for that. We already knew that that was gonna happen. Um, and it did. You know, once CJ came around, um, then uh you stopped working, you cashed out, you know, everything. And I was like, I'm done. Yes, and you were excited. Bye, correct. And that was that was good for us. Uh we um, you know, we were able to provide um a lot of stability for CJ as soon as he uh came out because you were there all the time for him and and there was no pressure for you to you know have to do anything else.
Speaker 2It was a blessing, Charles.
SpeakerYeah, it for so many ways. Um, but also because of you cashing out, we were able to actually fund uh our trip to California to move back to California uh to be with uh my daughters. Um I have three daughters from a previous marriage, and they were I think the youngest was what, 10? Um and we had so 10, and then it was like maybe 12, and then probably 14 or 15 was uh the the oldest. And so um I came back um and to become a principal. And uh we moved to California to and I was taking a principal job, and um we, you know, that was pretty much our what we were doing. You know, I was a principal, you were staying at home, and it was working. Um, in terms of the home, it was working, but what wasn't working for us?
Speaker 2What wasn't working was the dynamic at the school. That's right. The culture
Rebranding A Turnaround High School
Speaker 2of the school.
SpeakerThat's right.
Speaker 2You want me to say it?
SpeakerYou can say that part.
Speaker 2I will say that those people.
SpeakerUh-oh, see now, come on now.
Speaker 2Listen, they did not appreciate having a black male principal leading them that wanted to incorporate change in the culture of the school. Yeah. Because you were, you had a vision for the school. You saw the potential in the kids there, and you wanted them to, you know, be the best they could be and really enjoy their high school experience. But not everybody at the school felt that way.
SpeakerYeah, exactly. And that was the spirit of everything I did. That was the the foundation of every decision I made was what's best for the kids. Um, and we we definitely had an you know, there were there were definitely a number of adults that centered themselves and felt like, you know, they wanted to whatever was best for them, they wanted me to to have to kind of, you know, um cater to them in some way.
Speaker 2Because what were some of the things you were doing for the kids?
SpeakerOh man.
Speaker 2I mean, for the school, for the you know, the culture of the school.
SpeakerYeah. I mean, one of the first things I did, well, first they didn't realize that they were a turnaround school. The superintendent who hired me had asked me to come and turn around the school. Um, but the people that were there didn't know they were a turnaround school. So, you know, I had to spend some time kind of educating them on where they were in the data, you know, like they weren't performing that well, why there were certain trends that just weren't working well in terms of behavior. Um, and then also some of the things that I noticed in terms of how we were spending our money and how it wasn't being allocated best for, you know, the kids. And so kind of highlighting all these things, you know, when you when you when you when you we start off our relationship, and I tried my best to build rapport, you know, do the observing, all these different things that people tell you to do when you first start at a new place and you're the boss. Yeah, don't change things right away. I I I tried to do that, but there was um a sense of urgency coming from the current superintendent at the time to say, hey, I need you to, you know, do what you do. I uh you got a vision, so go ahead and and and and and and act it. So I tried my best to solicit support, you know, get people on board. But one thing the school needed to do was to was to rebrand, was not only to get a redesign, but also a rebrand. So it started off with um some of the design pieces, like I changed the logo up, uh, painted the school, make sure things were clean, like make sure the the actual like I did people didn't understand why I did this, but I understood why I did it. And I tried to explain it to them because it's like uh there's this theory called the that you can call the broken window, um, broken window theory, and that if you walk by a building, this like came from like New York, I think. You walk by a building, you see a broken window, um, and you don't fix the window, you think nothing of it. But because you see a broken window and no one's fixing it, it plays subconsciously on you that it's okay to maybe break another window. And if you see two broken windows, now all of a sudden it doesn't look like it's a well-kept up place. So it probably needs some trash on the floor to add to the to the visuals, right? You probably need some graffiti now, and so that's okay. I kind of it keeps building, right? But if you immediately fix the window, you kind of reinforce the idea that this is not a place where you know it should be trashed, right? Or it should look bad.
Speaker 2So you reinforce the care.
SpeakerYeah, and so what I noticed like not only like in terms of painting the building and cleaning up the the lawn and just all this different stuff, you know, cosmetic, was that on the floor there was a lot of gum like on the cement as you walk as dad as well just they'll just throw it down and stomp on it, right? But there was gum like on all the walkways, but but what that did was it made the cement look dirty because there's all this gum that you would step on. And so I had um, you know, our clean crew clean off the gum. And they thought that that was like, you know, like I was almost like it was like demeaning work. Like, you know, some people took it like, oh he's like he's like some kind of uppity guy. He's got people cleaning gum off the and I'm like, who else is gonna do it? Like I don't know who that's their job, right? Literally like their job. And also, there was actually what was crazy about the thing about that situation was that a lot of the things that I did, I saw at the affluent school that was like 10 minutes away.
Speaker 2That was part of the same network.
SpeakerPart of the same network. They had a gun machine. I got the idea from them, they had the machine. I just got one just like them, but their their uh floors never looked or their semen never looked that bad because someone would be cleaning it. So it wasn't like an idea that I just came up with, but someone gave it to me because they were like, hey, you know, we went to um uh your school for professional development. We noticed that you got like all this stuff on the floor. Have you thought about doing anything about it? I didn't even know that that was even a thing. It was stuff like that. But then also I did like new uniforms for the kids. I uh we had um all the kids needed computers. We didn't have a one-to-one. We were supposed to be one-to-one school where every kid has a laptop that they can work on a Chromebook. So I bought new computers. Um I um provided teachers with um teacher supplies. So every year, teacher teachers usually have to come out of pocket for supplies and they reimburse by the school. And it's not very much. They get reimbursed like a couple hundred dollars, which is not enough to like really have supplies for the year for your kids. Um, so what I did was I said, okay, stop doing that. You don't have to spend your own money. I'm gonna create a store, or not a store, but a a like an Office Max within our campus that you can come and get supplies for free. We'll pay for them.
Speaker 2Wow.
SpeakerUm, we did stuff like that. I created break rooms. We didn't have any break rooms for teachers.
Speaker 2A lot of teachers that would appreciate something like that.
SpeakerYeah. I created break rooms. Um, I would feed them every uh every week whenever we had staff meetings, I would cater that. Um, I made sure all of them were paid appropriately because a lot of our staff was at the time was underpaid. Um and and I meant when I mean by pay them appropriately, is meaning that if you've been working there for seven years and based on this rubric or we had or the scale, pay scale you had, you had to get paid a certain amount based on your position. People weren't getting paid what they were supposed to get paid.
Speaker 3Wow.
SpeakerAnd so I just made sure everyone got paid. So it looked like to them that I was giving everybody raises and that they thought I was like trying to buy people off or something, like by their approval. I was like, no, no, I'm guys, like this is literally what you should have already had. Um, I actually experienced a guy who came in and he was having issues with his daughter at the time and with medical coverage and was asking me for different solutions, and I'm trying to help him. And I just you know looked at his his profile and I'm like, you know, did you know you got medical? He didn't know.
Speaker 2Wow.
SpeakerHe didn't know he had medical, like covered, fully covered, and his daughter. Like it was already something he had, and he was asking me with help for that. But that was how much they were neglected, and they didn't know. Like they didn't know that these were all things that that you know, I was just trying to do right by them. Um, but you know, sometimes when you're you're not treated well, you know, but anyway, so a lot of that stuff. I I brought in a computer lab, I started an esports program, um, help kids with flyaway programs to uh during the summer, during the year, they would fly out to different Ivy League schools and go on campus to help them uh increase their chance of getting enrolled um um at that uh university. Um we did uh we did we opened up a student store to help fundraise for kids uh so they didn't have to like, you know, people hadn't come out come out of pocket for different things, fun things they wanted to do. We had we reinvested, you know, in ourselves. The kids wanted to have snacks.
Speaker 2And they love that story. They loved it because they loved it.
SpeakerThe alternative was this guy who had a cart. And we we actually our school was on a major street. So it was like a major street. Uh so as in you couldn't even walk across the street to get into the cart.
Speaker 2And it was a wide, like, I don't what was this four-lane?
SpeakerYeah, it was four, yeah, four-lane highway.
Speaker 2Four lane highway, but it was like super wide.
SpeakerYeah, kind of wide, but it was it was middle, um, it wasn't that wide, but it was it was dangerous. You couldn't really cross it. That's the point, right? You couldn't walk into the school, you had to be driven into it. So, but the guy would set up the cart on the outside of the school, um, kind of like a little ways down, and kids will go and purchase things from the cart, but they were walking on the sidewalk to get to this cart, which was kind of dangerous because they would crowd up and it's a major, you know, street. So cars are going by fast, 50 miles, 60 miles an hour, or 40 miles an hour, whatever. And so anyway, I said, this is just dangerous. And then sometimes they go there to fight. So I was like, we got to figure this out. So create the student store, and I made sure to stock it with food they actually eat, they actually like better than what they were getting at the cart guy. Right. Right. And then I actually staffed it with students and um made it like a teachable thing so they learned how to actually, you know, have a store, inventory, you know, all the different things and margins and the profit and all that stuff. Did all that stuff, and we ended up raising like a whole bunch of money for the for the school, and I use that money to reinvest it into other things like rallies and and giveaways and all types of stuff. So yeah. So I was really into it. I really love being there, but and the gear too, like the hoodies. Oh, yeah, we we totally changed the uniform.
Speaker 2So those hoodies were fly.
SpeakerThe kids love the new look. Um, and I knew I struck a record with the kids when I saw them wear their school uniform or their school merch, not just on campus, but they would wear it at the mall, like on the weekends, right? And because they match it with their J's, they match it, you know, you know, and so I knew that it would we were on to something. And you know, there were some people who were really excited about all the changes, and there were some that weren't. And unfortunately, the ones that weren't, um, it just caused a lot of stress
Stress Hits Hard And Big Pivot
Speakerfor me. And as you know, I ended up in the ER, March 2018, March 2019, due to stress. Um, and that second time that it happened, um, that's when you turned to me and said, Charles, we can't lose you to a job. And so how was that time for you?
Speaker 2That was, you know, it was it was actually a little stressful for me because by that time we had our second baby together, and it was really overwhelming for me. It was a lot because you know, we we met at fairly quickly, and it just all happened so it all happened really fast. It was like boom, I'm a mom and a stepmom, and I live on the other side of the country away from my family in New York, and I didn't really have like you know, a support system, and you were gone at the school, it was an hour commute roughly or 45 minutes.
SpeakerHour and hour and yeah, 15, 20 minutes. Uh yeah. It was over an hour. It was over an hour for sure.
Speaker 2It was far.
SpeakerYeah.
Speaker 2So you wouldn't get home till you know, kind of late, especially if there were events at the school, you had meetings. It was and I was just like, this is crazy. So, you know, you were going through what you were going through.
SpeakerOh, I'm sorry, my bad. It was about 45 minutes because I initially we were in Sacramento.
Speaker 2Yeah. Yeah.
SpeakerAnd then we m but we moved closer. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker 2Yeah, we moved closer to you know the school. Thinking that that would help relationships at the school, but it didn't.
SpeakerIt didn't. And yeah, so we ended up um
Launching An In-Home Preschool
Speakerleaving the principalship, right? Um, made the decision to do that. And the first thing we did was start entrepreneurship, um, which I wasn't sure about, but you had like you were convinced. You had a hundred percent faith that this was gonna work out. I remember you telling me you said, you know, uh, I've always felt like you should be an entrepreneur. And I was like, why do you say that? And you told me, I remember forget, you said, you know, because the dreams you have for us, you were never gonna get us there on a principal salary. I remember you, and you said you gotta be an entrepreneur because then you could actually do all the things that you Yeah, you can create the life that we can live together. Yeah.
Speaker 2And for our family.
SpeakerSo I thought that was pretty cool. Um, but I didn't know what to do. I didn't know what to start. I didn't know what to do with entrepreneurship. But you had taught our boys how to read by the age of two, both of our boys. And so I figured you're really good at that. And I'm good with managing kids and you know, I can build, you know, I can, you know, manage the school. So we decided to create an in-home preschool.
Speaker 2Right? And bring people into our home and just open our doors and just love on folks in the community. And it was before we started it, I thought, you know, I had this idea of just having a whole bunch of kids and being with them all day, but you know, initially that it happened.
SpeakerNo, no, we struggled initially to get kids, but eventually, once we start doing some like marketing campaigns, I started doing marketing campaigns, but we figured it out. We were able to get kids enrolled.
Speaker 2Yeah, because we were handing out flyers at Walmart and putting up flyers at the library, and it wasn't working.
SpeakerWasn't working. That wasn't working. So we did a Google campaign, Facebook campaign that did work. Um, we were able to fill up our daycare and also fill up a daycare around the corner. And after about a month or so, we had like a 40-parent
Daily Workflow And Role Friction
Speakerwait list. So things were good, right? Um, but one thing that that um I wanted to talk about was like because we started working together. So we went from that husband and wife dynamic where I'm working, you're at home, and we had that going, and then all of a sudden we started to spend every day, every waking moment with each other.
Speaker 2Yes, all day, every day.
SpeakerBecause we worked together. So, how was that dynamic? Do you think that things kind of formed naturally for us, or do you think that we had to kind of like, you know, sort it out?
Speaker 2Well, I mean, before we got married, we were spending a lot of time together. We did, you know, and it we developed this friendship, and I felt like you were my best friend. So I was really excited that I could be with you all day, having you to myself all day long. So I was really excited about that.
SpeakerAnd I I was I don't say I don't think I was as excited as you. Um, I mean, you know, it because you know, be I'm more of a practical thinker and I'm thinking like, because you have you know this romanticized notion of it, like, oh, we're just gonna, you know, and I was like, uh all day. I mean, um, because we have different working styles, right? And so um, you know, I'm looking at it like how a principal would, you know, I'm gonna get up, we start at a certain time, gotta make sure things are done. You know, you are um, even though I'm mainly like the operations and like different things, you were in charge of cooking, you were in charge of, you know, greeting the k the the kids, making sure they had um activities and things like that. And so there were certain logistical things that I needed, you know, I I kind of planned out for us. And what do you do when typically when uh when I give you plans in my um They go straight out the window? That's right.
Speaker 2But that's how I was back then.
SpeakerIs it different now?
Speaker 2Yes. Okay, I mean it's not a hundred percent there.
SpeakerOkay, there we go.
Speaker 2But we've been working on it throughout the year. That's I saw I just wanted us to tell some truth.
SpeakerThat's all yeah, it it's it's not as bad as it was. It is getting better, but we're not quite there. Right. Um, but yeah, you you tend uh you know, your personality is when when people give you plans and rules, that is like it's you're like it's like someone daring you to break the rule. Like you, you you don't there's not one rule or plan that you look at and go, I'm definitely gonna follow that. It's like you want to do the opposite.
Speaker 2Not intentionally.
unknownI don't know.
Speaker 2What it is. It's like something. I don't know.
SpeakerWell, whatever it is, you pass it down to Malcolm because, like, you know, we uh whenever we go to an Airbnb or an eight-year-old. Yeah. And and he sees something that says, do not enter, he's like, I kind of want to see what's in there. I'm like, why? It says, no. Like, it's like, let like, let it go, right? Don't even think about it. He's just like, what's in there?
Speaker 2Like, what do you what do you think? It's through him that I've seen the error in my way. Oh my God.
SpeakerYeah, yeah, exactly. Because you get to experience what that's like for someone to keep challenging and being like, you know, why do we gotta do this? Now I'm doing it something different. Like, why are you doing it different? You don't gotta do it different. Anyway, um, so but but at the same time, I do appreciate that part of you because I'm a rule follower, right? And so while you may be someone who goes against the rules, and it doesn't always work out, but sometimes it does. And sometimes we need exactly that for you to break the rules. Uh, prime example about how we work, well, how we figured out how to work together. That logistics part, we knew I was gonna do that. We knew you were gonna do the fun part. We kind of knew that innately. But we didn't know how it would work together. Because while I'm trying to, you know, one of the features of our preschool was that we had a legitimate schedule, things were getting done, there was learning time, there was all this different stuff, but you had to follow the schedule because you were the teacher. And sometimes that would work, and sometimes that wouldn't. Because I'd be like, hey, next activity, let's go. We're moving on. And you're like, no, we're still kind of, you know, I wanted to, like, no, no, no, you know.
Speaker 3They're having fun.
SpeakerLike, wrap it up. Wrap it up, right? Or it's lunchtime, right? We gotta get him lunch because if you don't get his lunch by, or you don't cook it by this time, or you know, it was all these different things, and we had it where like I'd have you uh, like we uh they were kids would go do something, I'd be watching them, and while I'm watching them, you need to be making food and you gotta have food done by this time because then I'm done doing this, we can switch back, and then when you're done uh cooking, I can go and clean. And we had this, I had it all worked out, but it didn't always work out because sometimes you wanted to buck it. You wanted to buck the system. Buck the system. But still, it still worked out really well. We had a lot of happy parents, uh, people who really enjoyed um you know what we did. But one thing I really noticed about us is that there were times where I had to take a step back because um I needed to focus because sometimes, and I admit this, you know, I get really upset with you and really frustrated with you because I would focus on the things that you weren't doing, right? You weren't following, you know, the timeline, you weren't doing certain things. And I and I was like so focused on it was frustrating, but I realized, you know, just through experience that instead of be focusing on that, because that leaves me not very happy, was to focus on the things that you were doing well, right? Focus on your strengths and not your weaknesses. So the things that you did well was that you would cook an amazing meal like almost every day. Like we all were getting fed breakfast and lunch by you, and it was delicious, right? The kids And then dinner for the family, and then dinner for the family sometimes, and then the kids would love it, right? And that was also actually a part of our feed, our our preschool that made it like so like so so fun for the kids, and they loved it because they loved the food, they loved eating there, they did, even to the point where their parents wanted some of our of our food. We'd feed them too, and they was like, Are they getting this every day? That's crazy, and I enjoyed it too. Low-key, you know, I was like, damn, I get my wife to cook every day. So I was enjoying it too. But uh, one thing that really highlighted for me our strengths and differences was um a moment that you you and you and
Home Depot Lesson On Creativity
SpeakerI had at Home Depot. Do you remember that?
Speaker 2Yes. You want to tell that story? So we were at Home Depot and we had just gotten a sandbox. So we needed, you know, to go to Home Depot, get the sand to fill the sandbox. And so, you know, how they stack it in a certain order.
SpeakerOkay. So I'm listening because I want you to set it up the right way because people won't feel it if you don't set it up the right way. So give a lot of crazy.
Speaker 2You know, Charles, big strong man, he has big strong R. So I'm like, Charles, go up there and pull a sandbag down. We need, you know, we need a few of them. Yeah. So he got one, got two, and then there was one. It was like sand on top of it, so he couldn't really get it. And so he was struggling, trying to pull it out because it's like compressed down in there. And then I was looked at it. Uh-huh.
SpeakerHold on, hold on, hold on.
Speaker 2Okay.
SpeakerOkay, yeah. I'll add a little more here just to add to your story. You're doing a really good job. That was good.
Speaker 1Okay. I'm trying to get better.
SpeakerYes, that was good. Yes, I I got the first two bags down. The third one I was struggling with, just like you said, it was in there in a weird way. And I thought I could kind of yank it out, and I was just using all my muscles. I couldn't do it. And then um, you may not remember this detail, but we looked to the left, and there was this old man that walked up and had a similar step. Oh, for like cement or cement, and he just went and like grabbed the bag and just and just left. And I was like, oh what? I'm over here feeling away because I'm like, just I give a fuck about this thing. Like, what is going on, right? And so I go at it again, and I'm like, and I'm like, you using my muscle back, and I'm my back hurt. I'm like, what? And then you just looking at me like and I'm and I'm feeling all types of way. I'm like my wife here, my sons are here. What is going on? Y'all saw me use the first two bags, right? Like, but this is what it's just it's it's not working. And and I'm like, you know what? I'm like, man, and I look at John C and John C's, it looks like she wants to do something.
Speaker 1I know I was getting frustrated because I'm like, how do you not see this?
SpeakerAnd I couldn't see it. And so I said, I said, I said, okay, Johnce, this is where I need your creativity. And because I wanted, I and I I wanted to recognize the moment because I was like, okay, this is a moment, because I'm conventional, I'm very linear, logical thinking. In my mind, I should be able to get this third piece. I know there's some things on it, but based on what I can see, my math and my head, I should be able to snatch this thing, and I can't, and I don't understand it. I'm getting very frustrated. You look like you have something or an answer or something. So I'm gonna go ahead and step aside and I'm gonna humble myself and I'm gonna see if you can help me out. And what did you do, babe?
Speaker 2And so I went to the bag and I think I just repositioned something, but I saw how to get it out. Yeah, it looked like a puzzle that I could solve.
SpeakerAnd it was so brilliant. You went and you actually moved a piece that looked so unrelated. You moved like a piece like to the right of it. Like it, I didn't it I didn't see the connection. You moved that piece, and as soon as you moved that piece, you went and just tugged it and it just came out. I was like, oh my God. But that to me was like, that's that's our relationship, like in a lot of ways, right? It really is. Oh man. And we use that example a lot. There's times where I'm like, okay, let me step aside. We got one of the moments because sometimes when I get stuck, um, and I could take us really far, you know, boom, and do, but there's sometimes when I get stuck and I just need creativity. I need someone who's gonna break the rules. I need someone who's gonna be unconventional, I need someone who's gonna not look at it the linear way, and you do that so well.
Speaker 2And in turn, I need somebody who can get us on a schedule. Yes, and who can, you know, just make sure everything flows the way it should.
SpeakerYes, yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2The household operations, that's not my ministry, yeah.
SpeakerHousehold, just logistics, you know, anything regarding any of that stuff, you typically pass that to be, but at the same time, if if our family only ran off of what me, I did logistically, it would probably feel like, you know, like stale, like the military. It would, it would be a lot of structure and function, but not a lot of fun. But what you do is you bring the fun. And you're great at that. So that's the reason why a lot of us, you know, are you know happy and having fun at the house or wherever we are, because you are the one that comes up with those ideas. You're the ones that, you know, that thinks through that to say, hey, we should, you know, this and that. And we don't always, me and the boys, we don't always be like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea, Mom. Like, we don't sometimes we push back, but you're like, no, like this is gonna be fun. You gotta trust me. And then we go do it, and we're like, that was amazing. I.e. uh slime.
Speaker 2Yeah, the slumu, yeah. So Malcolm's birthday, he just turned eight. And so I'm like, let's go to this place. It's 45 minutes away, but it's gonna be amazing. Yeah, like, but we get there, and Malcolm said that was the best birthday he's ever had. So be
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Clear Roles For Emails And Team
Speaker 2People think it's cute, right? Until it's time to decide who's replying to the email.
SpeakerYeah, like who's doing what?
Speaker 2Who's doing what? You know?
SpeakerBecause people think, you know, all- Or who's taking the sales calls? Who's taking the sales calls?
Speaker 2Who's managing the team?
SpeakerThat's right. Well, we all know who's doing that. But but but we had to learn that though, too, because like even in our dynamic at the daycare, I remember I had because we got started paying a commission while you used doing the daycare. So you were downstairs and I was upstairs. And I actually hired you an assistant. Um, you know, doing my principal thing. I hired someone I hired well, I hired someone to help you, but you didn't know how to manage them.
Speaker 2I didn't. And I and I tried because she was the sweetest thing, but it's just not, it wasn't. It wasn't, yeah. You weren't a manager. So I would get frustrated, like, oh gosh, what should I have her do now? Like trying to figure it all out and you know, or how she could really help me because she wanted to help me. Yeah. And she wanted to, you know, help us grow. Yeah. And she really enjoyed being there. And it was just, it was great, but I just didn't, I didn't know what to do.
SpeakerYou didn't know how to manage another adult. Right. And I know how to manage managers of adult. That's what I did as a principal. So I was, I felt comfortable. I was like, I go, I can coach you through this, I can teach you how to manage her. But the problem was I was also running another business. And so I didn't have the time. And so it just ended up being a point of frustration. But I also had to accept the fact that that's not your role. Like you're you're not going to be someone who necessarily is going to be dealing with the people um to manage them to get them to perform. You're more so um, you know, better at um like clients and you know, getting people to like attracting them to come in, getting them to give us a shot. Um, that's why you do the sales calls, that's why you just, you know, certain things like that. You do the networking for us because that works really well uh for us. So let's let's talk through, you know, more about like uh some of the things that we do together and we do apart, right? Um so how do we in in your mind, how do we separate marriage mode and um like business mode?
Respect Tone And CEO Versus Spouse
Speaker 2That was a learning curve. That was that was really that was a a trip because I felt like we're finally in a place where we understand and it works, you know? But there was for years I would give you a lot of pushback because yes, you're the CEO, but you know, you're my husband, I'm familiar with you, so you you ain't gonna be talking to me. You ain't gonna be telling me what to do, you know, because I grew up in New York. I get a little testy sometimes.
SpeakerYeah, let's talk about that. I I I think that people think that we, you know, they see us on camera all the time, they think we always get along. And and and I would say it, I you know, I'm and we're married.
Speaker 1So Mary Council always gets along.
SpeakerNot at all, right? It's it's a fantasy. So we just gonna go ahead and just demystify that now. We don't always get along. Um, that doesn't mean we don't love each other, doesn't mean that we we're not rooting for each other, that we're not in each other's corner, but we don't always get along. No. Um, but definitely was hilarious that you said that because yeah, you're you're not a rule follower, um, and you like to push back um on rules, on authority, all those different things. And for me, is my role as CEO, and also my role that I've been in for a number of years as principal, as leader, all these things. Like, I'm I'm not used to people pushing back on me. Like, you know, our staff, our staff of eight, you know, I'm constantly managing them. Ain't nobody pushing back on me. And I tell you all the time, like, man, if you wasn't my wife, I would have fired you all. Because you can't be talking to me like that. And I remember like we, because we both, you said you grew up, you know, in New York and you you you had this defensive kind of stature where you know you wanted to make sure that you weren't getting sun, right? You wanted to make sure that I wasn't trying to check you, you know, don't be trying to son me, you know.
Speaker 1Like I literally said that to you. Yeah.
SpeakerAnd I'm like, and I, but and I had to realize too that my background, because I grew up where I grew up, you know, um, in Inglewood and you know, in different hoods of the USA, and I'm also the type of person, like, you you you ain't gonna check me either. Like, you ain't gonna be talking crazy to me. So we both had this energy of like, yo, watch your tone, okay? Like, like, I don't know who you think you're talking to. And so we had that stalemate, and while we have that stalemate, you know, because you know, we're like, hey, you know, make sure you talk to me right, you know, talk to me nice, then we gotta actually do some business though. We gotta actually like move forward.
Speaker 2Yeah, we had to learn how to talk through a lot. We had to learn how, because I didn't grow up, you know, talking about my feelings or talking about situations. I always really internalize it. So that's one of the things that I really appreciate about you when I met you is you had learned, you know, because of your background in education, all this social, emotional, you know, education words. But um, and you were able to really open my mind and help me communicate better.
SpeakerThat's been that's been that's been um an interesting journey. Um, I've enjoyed seeing your evolution, but I mean, I have to admit, it's definitely been frustrating. Because there were times where, you know, um, you know, you I think that I'm like, man, you know, you should be, you should be able to get this, right? Because like, you know, it's just like I already explained to you what the concept is, and you know, and you should just be able to accept what I'm saying and let's move on, but not taking into account your your lived experience, you know, your learned experience, and that it does take some time to evolve, you know, in terms of like, you know, thinking through uh some of the emotions, especially when you're not raised that way. Like you've spent literally 30 years of your life without me, without knowing me, um, and not having to do these things. And then all of a sudden now you're thrust in a situation where a lot of stuff has changed. Um, and not only has you, you know, physically changed, family, marital status, all these different things, everything, everything's changed. And now I've asked you also to change how you emotionally, you know, process, how you communicate, you know, like it was it was a lot for all of us to do it. Yeah, all at once. A lot. Yeah, and then we then we got in business together too. So that's and then we both didn't know anything about that. So we had a lot going on.
Speaker 2I know. It was like we were learning, you know, learning each other, learning how to be married to each other, yeah, and learning how to grow a business too.
SpeakerIt it was it was so um, so there was times where we had to eventually establish some boundaries, right? Eventually establish some roles that that that were clear, right? So now we know like what our roles are in this dynamic, right? We know who does what at the house, right? We know who does what in business. And what we also clear, it's clear, right?
Speaker 2And it makes things so much easier for both of us.
SpeakerYes, and we lean to each other's strengths, yes, and that's key.
Speaker 2Yeah, always leaning into each other's strengths.
SpeakerYeah, because trying to change somebody is like, don't, don't even, don't even do that, y'all. Like if you if anyone's gonna change, it's gonna be through prayer. Amen.
Speaker 1A whole lot of prayer.
SpeakerPrayer and God gonna have to do it because you ain't gonna be able to do it. Right. And I learned that too. Like, if there's anything that I've really feel like, you know, John C can uh improve on, um, you know, while I may say it as a partner and as uh you know a husband, all those things, I'm not gonna like set the expectation that just because I said something, that she's gonna all of a sudden change. Like, you know, because it's it's an it's an individual thing. Like you you have to see it yourself. And I may not be right, you know, I may be wrong. Maybe I'm seeing it wrong, right? And maybe God gotta deal with me, you know. So it's it's but what I have learned is that if if I stop focusing on those things like the negative things or the things that make me upset, start focusing on the positive things and things that make me happy, I'm happier. I'm in a place, you know, that that that allows me to really enjoy uh you know who Jossi is, who and also uh have gratitude uh about what you bring to the table, which is which is a lot.
Speaker 2Okay, I appreciate that.
SpeakerYeah, that's sweet. You ain't gonna say nothing about me.
Speaker 2Oh, yeah, you're dope, babe.
SpeakerYou ain't got you ain't got nothing to say.
Speaker 2You're dope, babe.
SpeakerOkay, that's that's all I get. You ain't gonna give me the breakdown about how how how dope I am? Okay.
Speaker 2Yes, oh hey, oh I mean, honestly, if it wasn't for you, I don't I couldn't mother the way I do. I couldn't, you know, be as supportive of the boys. Because you, I mean, ever since they came out, from the moment they came out, you've been such a great partner in helping me with them. Because I had for a while, I had postpartum depression, and it was like such a battle, and you helped me through that. You helped me, you know, with feeding them when they were babies and you know, trying to get them to latch and all that stuff. So, you know, you are a true partner in every sense.
SpeakerAnd and what I've learned from you is like what loyalty is. Like, and I'm not and I'm not saying like in in in a in a spiritual sense, obviously, uh, but also just like emotionally. Because like what you learned from your ray uh upbringing was that you uh wouldn't discuss your feelings, right? And so you guys kept everything bottling, your whole family. Everybody upset, but ain't nobody talking about it, right? That's y'all. My family is complete opposite. We're gonna tell you how we feel and we gonna say probably things that we should not say, right? We go, we gonna dig deep and we gonna cut you. And so what I've learned in my upbringing was that, hey, if somebody hurts you that way, you hurt them back and then you cut them off. And so there's we have a lot of family that don't talk to each other. There's family I haven't spoken to in years, right? Um because something happened, it went too far, and now, you know, people feel like we can't we can't ever get back because we said some stuff that just hurts too bad. You know, and so what I learned from you is that that even if you do sometimes, you know, say some things that you shouldn't say, you know, that you it doesn't mean it's over. Like you, you, you really kind of I remember the first couple times where we had some trouble and I was thinking like, oh man, man, I I'm you know, I QRL. It was a good run. It was a good run, but I know how the story is, you know. She she upset, I'm upset, nah, call it, call it day, you know. It was a good run. I really liked her. You know, she was the best, you know. But you were like, no, like, are you kidding me? Like, that's not what this is. Like, I'm not thinking that, I'm not even on that. Like, that's not a uh thought in my mind. And I'm like, what, but you acting like you like, yeah, I'm upset, but I'm not doesn't mean I'm going anywhere. I'm not gonna do nothing, you know what I mean? And I'm like, what?
Speaker 2That's unconditional love, babe.
SpeakerYeah, and and I I think, like, and I learned this through you. I feel like I've always had the capacity for it, but never felt safe. Right? Because different things, you know, I don't want to get into all that, but like, you know, not having a good relationship with my father, you know. Biological mom, that relationship is pretty much non-existent. Those kind of things, those fundamental things that children are supposed to have to kind of anchor them in love and especially unconditional love and all those different things. I didn't have that. And so I didn't really trust that. Um, and then also then compile that with my you know first marriage not working out and being young and making bad decisions. I was like, ain't no weight, you know what I'm saying? Um, but then you come along and kind of just you know reverse all that thinking. So that's been that's been great. Oh let's let's help out the people. So we told our story. So what are some of the things um that we had to learn the hard way that um that we can help them um potentially if they're in a similar situation?
Practical Communication Rules That Work
Speaker 2Learn how to talk to each other, learn, like you know, be mindful of what you say. Maybe take a beat and just be mindful of what you say before you say it. Just don't come out swinging. And um, yeah, just try your best to it's cliche, you know. I feel like every couple says communication, but learning how to communicate with each other. I feel like it's like you know, that movie Happy Feet with the little penguins, and they start playing each other's songs and the songs merge together into one song. That's good. That's how that's how it is with us.
SpeakerYeah. We had to learn it though.
Speaker 2Yeah.
SpeakerSo we have different communication styles. So we let's make it more like uh, you know, really practical for folks. So my uh communication style is a lot of details. I like a lot of details and ask a lot of questions. Sometimes if people don't know me well, they think that my question asking can be assumptions or imp or I'm implying things by asking questions. They think that I'm judging them or they think that I'm being critical. I'm really being curious. And so I know that was a learning for you to accept that that maybe when I ask this question, I'm not actually trying to lead you somewhere, or I'm literally just curious about that.
Speaker 2Years.
SpeakerYeah. I know, and then also on the other end, uh, your communication style um is one that uh requires sometimes to take a beat.
Speaker 2You can't, you know, you don't always you're not able to- I don't always give you all the information that you need.
SpeakerYes, because sometimes you need a moment. Because I don't need a moment, I just assumed that you didn't need a moment, and so I would just, you know, I'd press it. But that wouldn't help you. Pressing you actually led to you shutting down. And I didn't want you to shut down. And what I found out is that you didn't want to shut down either, is that you were just being triggered. And so once I realized that I was triggering you, I had to figure out a way to talk to you in a way that didn't press you, didn't make you feel that way. Um, I think also too, learning told, right? Because for me, you know, because I grew up with coaches and sports, and my dad was in the military. Like, I grew up with the thought of it's not how you say it, it's what you say. So I would focus on what people would say rather than so much how they said it, right? I I I learned early on, I was taught early on to not focus on that because you know you'll just listen to the words. Just listen to the words, you'll miss the message if you focus on the emotion. That's not how you are.
Speaker 2No, because tone, like my mom was all about tone. She gave me tons of love. That was she just made me feel loved, but you know, it was all about respect as well. So if I talked to her crazy, it would not be good.
unknownYeah.
SpeakerSo I I learned through you that it's you know, it it's it is it is what you say, right? It is also how you say it, depending on the individual. It it really just depends. And you have to learn how to communicate uh with everyone. Uh, I mean, I learned that in the principalship, but there's also just that authority piece, whereas sometimes you're like, yeah, you know, you can spend the time doing all that, but at the end of the day, sometimes you just gotta tell people what it is, right? And when you're in a boss role, you can kind of do that. But when you're in a partner role, that's not it. Because if at any moment you feel disrespected, the conversation is pretty much over. And I have to make sure that I'm aware of that. Um and we've worked through it because there's times where I'm honestly not trying to be disrespectful, but it's coming across that way. And I had to accept that that's what you felt. But then you also too had to, I guess, sometimes kind of, you know, change your feel to her build to be like, you know, not everything he's saying, his intention is to be disrespectful. Like, some of this really is just curiosity, some of this really is just him like, you know, wanting more information. He's not trying to come at me in a crazy way. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 2Yes, 100%.
SpeakerSo we learn each other. We don't, we still don't get it all the way right. Like we still, we still have our moments, right? Um, and we still are who we are. Um, you know, but but the the the fact that we work on it, we're so intentional about it.
Speaker 2It's brought in us closer together. Like we were already friends, but it's it's just much deeper now.
SpeakerYes, a hundred percent. And so if we're helping people, uh we we gotta, I would say, uh, play each other's strengths, communicate better, know each other's roles,
Unplugging Without Killing Your Marriage
Speakerright? Would you also suggest that there's a time where we unplug?
Speaker 2How do you do that as entrepreneurs?
SpeakerIt's difficult, right?
Speaker 2It's like I was at uh uh an event a few weeks ago, and it was this couple there. And so I started talking to the wife, she's really sweet, and she's asking me. I tell you, you know, I work with my husband too, and we've been doing this for years now, and they were kind of new in their business. I think they've been doing it for maybe less than a year. Um, but she was like, you know, what time do you just turn it off? At what point can you just like step away and you know, just be away from the work? And I'm like, oh I don't know. Yeah. And I really there aren't many people that I know who are entrepreneurs who can even do that. So it's like you're always thinking about your business. You're always thinking about oh, what can I do next? Or how can I improve this, or you know, thinking about your clients. It's like you know, we're always talking about it. We always are, but we enjoy talking about with each other.
SpeakerYeah, it's a part of our part of what who we are.
Speaker 2We like it.
SpeakerYeah, but it but just to get a little transparent, okay, what what what's our what's our uh not all the time, but what is what is most of the time our pillow talk about?
Speaker 2Business, businesses, man.
SpeakerMatter of fact, if I'm being transparent, okay, go ahead. If I'm being transparent, go ahead. This is this is this fellas. I don't know if this is gonna work for y'all, but the way that I help my wife go to sleep sounds crazy.
Speaker 4Literally just say the word.
SpeakerThat's all I gotta say. Sometimes just say the word. I just be like, business, business is business. And she starts falling asleep. It's like rocking my baby. Like, yeah, um, it's funny. It's funny we laugh, but it's true. We not, we not, we actually not play it.
Speaker 1Um, you know, sometimes it's I don't even understand that, Charles. I don't get it.
SpeakerIt's like she'll as soon as she'll I found this out because she would set me up. Because she be, she'd be like, you know, not able to sleep. And so she'd be like, you know, Charles, you know, you know, come talk to me. I'm not able to sleep, you know, let's, you know, and I'm like, okay, like, you know, I'm thinking she's saying, come talk to me. I'm not able to sleep because she wants to stay up. Like, that's what I'm thinking. Like, she, oh, she wants to talk. She's not able to sleep. Let's talk. And so she'll ask me a question about business or you know, something going on in the company, and I start talking to her about what's going on to come. I'm going on my little rant. Next thing I know, I hear snoring. I'm like, Well, snoring. What? You don't snore? I'll just be asleep. Okay, I'm sorry. My bad. Yeah, uh, scratch that one out, uh Zoom. Oh my goodness. No, so but you'll you'll be uh breathing hard that lets me know that you're asleep, right? Because your your breathing pattern changed. And so um from there, I'm like, what's going on? And it happened, it started happening so often where I'm like, yo, are you using me to just go like this business talk is really putting you to sleep? And I remember one time I just out of just pure me just trying to you know play with her and have fun. I started talking about business, and then I just start saying business, business, business, and she went to sleep. So now it's a running joke. Yeah. But we do enjoy talking about business. And and I don't know, I I would suggest if people unplug, we do unplug, we try to unplug Lisa on our vacations, and we are in the world.
Speaker 2And when the boys get home from school, that's yeah, that's one of the times. It's like when the that's that's a big cutoff. Yeah, yeah. Um, but you know, there's flexibility.
SpeakerThere is flexibility, but we do suggest people do it.
Grace Plus Structure For The Long Haul
SpeakerAnd so here's the thing. So, you know, as we wrap up, you know, pretty much um, you know, what I want people to understand is that it's not always uh balance um in terms of you know the the work life relationship, the work wife, wife, work balance, it ain't always there, it's kind of blends, but because we are intentional, um, we find ways to make it work.
Speaker 2And that's all I think your work wife is pretty fun too, isn't she? Man, they both fun. If I'm being honest. So if you and your partner are are building together, you know, you're trying to get this thing to work, just make sure you give each other some grace because it can take time, you know. You just gotta find that rhythm together, whatever works for you together.
SpeakerYep. Give grace and give structure, right? Yes, because we need both.
Speaker 2Yes, that's very important.
SpeakerAmen.
Speaker 2Amen. So if you need to give your business some structure around its brand, holla at us at Panda Commission.
SpeakerSo, yeah, we would love to help you out. Uh, we would love to uh help if you're a couple, if you're a couple in business, you're looking to rebrand, uh, establish your brand, looking for designs. Uh, we'd love to help you out. We actually help out a lot of uh couples in business. Um, I think because they see us and how we work and they also want to work with other couples. And so we work really well with couples. Uh, we've had a lot of success uh working with couples with individual brands and also their businesses together. Um so if you're interested in that, go to pandacommission.com, book a call, um, or leave a comment uh you know down below. We would love to hear from you, uh, hear your some of your stories. Uh, we can share stories. Uh, and also you can follow us uh at all social media platforms, go to Panda Commission or Type In Panda Commission, you'll find us. Um, and if you like this episode, like it, uh, subscribe to our channel, share it with someone. Ultimately, we'd love for you to become a part of our Panda family.
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