Branding Vs Marketing Vs Design | Ep. 10

You can have a big audience, steady traffic, and “good marketing” and still wonder why sales feel stuck. That’s the moment we stop chasing more visibility and start asking a harder question: is the real problem your branding, your design, or your marketing? We unpack the difference in plain language, because mixing these terms leads to expensive mistakes, especially for small business owners, coaches, speakers, authors, and service providers trying to grow online.

We define branding as your reputation and the lived customer experience people associate with your name. Marketing is the traffic and visibility that gets you noticed. Design is the visual presentation that shapes emotion, trust, and clarity across your website, offers, and content. Using a McDonald’s example (yes, including the order mix-ups), we show how a brand can lose loyalty even when the marketing machine is strong, and why “rebranding” is often just a redesign when what you really need is a better experience.

We also get practical about conversion rate problems: why scaling ads before validating an offer can burn money, how to test before you go big, and how to spot friction in your sales funnel (too many clicks, confusing steps, broken automation). If you’re debating a new logo, a new website, or a new campaign, this framework helps you choose the right fix in the right order: brand clarity first, design second, marketing third.

If this helps, subscribe, share it with a business friend who’s stuck, and leave a review so more people can find the show. What’s the one area you think is holding your sales back right now: brand, design, or marketing?

Thanks for listening to Brand Currency, where we have honest conversations about branding, business, and what it really takes to build a brand that people trust.

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Transcript

Copy

Leads Are Up, Sales Are Not

Speaker 0:00

So you remember once we had this client uh that came to us saying that they needed help with marketing and um because they say they they weren't converting their leads, right? They're like they needed they need marketing, right? But the truth is that you know what it turns out they didn't really need marketing necessarily, they needed a brand strategy.

Speaker 2 0:18

Yeah.

Speaker 0:18

Because they had actually uh high visibility, their visibility was high. Uh they had um, you know, uh their their messaging actually was was was kind of confusing. Um, but you know, their targeting was actually working because who they wanted to reach, they were reaching, but they just weren't converting. Right? Don't you see that happening?

Speaker 5 0:38

Oh, that happens quite often, right? Yeah, people have like a large following, they'll have people that will resonate with them in some way, but they're just not, you know, there's something missing for those people, those followers to take the next step.

Speaker 0:55

Exactly. And and and oftentimes people don't know what they're missing. So although the person came to us looking for marketing, which we offer branding and design, um, but they came to us for marketing looking to convert their leads, but they had leads, and that happens a lot. People are confused about those terms because they were looking for marketing. And if you're not careful, when you're looking for marketing, there's tons of marketing agencies out there. Woo. Right? Tons. Tons of them.

Speaker 5 1:23

Yeah, tons and tons.

Speaker 1:25

And they will gladly take your money to help you solve this problem of converting your leads. Uh, however, you may not have a marketing problem, which sounds like in this case the person didn't because they had traffic, they may have a branding problem. So, we're gonna talk about is figuring out how all this stuff works together, like what the difference is between branding, marketing, and design.

Speaker 5 1:49

Yes, I'm excited. This is the brand. This is the voice, this is the pay. Charles and Jonsi don't chase trends, brand currency for perfect.

Speaker 2:23

All right, y'all. Welcome

Defining Branding Marketing And Design

Speaker 2:24

to the brand currency podcast, where we break down branding and design in a way that actually makes sense for your business. My name is Charles McGill. I'm your host, and this is my lovely co-host.

Speaker 5 2:34

Hi, I'm Jonsi McGill, his wife and partner in business.

Speaker 2:38

That's right. We're gonna get into it today, man. We're gonna talk about something that my wife personally has been wanting me to do uh an episode on, wanting us to talk about.

Speaker 5 2:49

This is my special request.

Speaker 2:52

For sure, because oftentimes we hear these phrases, especially in the online space, these three phrases used almost interchangeably, and they shouldn't be branding, marketing, and design. They're three different things, very different. And I'm a let's let's let's set the foundation. I you know I'm a former educator, right? Okay, well, I guess I'm always an educator, right?

Speaker 5 3:13

You are, because you're teaching the people right now. That's it.

Speaker 3:17

So when we teach, and especially when we talk about terminology, we have to uh establish uh a foundation. We have to establish a common understanding of words, right, and their definitions. So let's do that right now.

Speaker 4 3:31

Okay, okay.

Speaker 3:32

So from from this point on in this episode, when I say these words, you're going to think about them in the context that I'm gonna give right now in terms of the definition. So branding. Branding, what branding is, is your reputation. That's your message, that's what people uh remember and uh about you and how you make them feel. That's what it is. It's when someone says your name of your company, right? And they instantly think of a memory or feeling, right? Or an emotion.

Speaker 2 4:08

Right.

Speaker 4:09

Right? That is your brand. They think about an experience.

Speaker 5 4:14

You know, uh, I say um McDonald's, and you immediately think of the Well, I immediately think of the playplace I used to go to when I was little.

Speaker 4:26

It's so funny, because when you said when you just said play place, that's what I was thinking about. The play place. See, because we take our kids there, right? We we we have when you know when when we used to go to McDonald's, right? Right. That was a place that in the and the happy meal, right? Right. The experiences, right? Part of that messaging is that they are family focused. Honestly, the food is not something to write home about where you like thinking about the food necessarily, but that's part of their brand is to have you think about those experiences that you have, you know, all of those.

Speaker 5 5:02

I mean, that's why they came up with the happy meal. Happy meal because they wanted kids to come in and get that happy.

Speaker 5:10

That's it. That's it. You want to be happy, get a happy meal.

Speaker 5 5:12

Exactly.

Speaker 5:13

Oh man, branding, right? Right. So that's so that is what branding is, right? Your reputation, your messaging, and how you make people feel.

Speaker 5 5:21

Let's stick with that example, actually, the happy meal.

Speaker 5:24

Okay.

Speaker 5 5:24

Okay. So what throughout. Throughout. Because I think it could touch on each one branding, marketing, and design in a different way. Okay, let's what were you gonna go to next?

Speaker 5:34

So I was gonna go to marketing next. So marketing is by definition, the what and we're gonna define this as marketing is your traffic, right? Marketing is your visibility, right? Marketing is how you reach people, um, and you kind of, you know, uh convert that interest that they have uh to, you know, actually, you know, maybe going to the store and possibly purchasing. Right. So that part is the marketing. So how would you take that with the happy meal?

Speaker 5 6:09

What I remember when I was I'm I'm just gonna go back to my childhood now. But they always had commercials of little kids with the Happy Meal box. Yes. All you know, it they always had that messaging towards kids, yeah.

Speaker 6:25

Hitting home to the kitties, focusing on the kids.

Speaker 5 6:28

Yes, yep.

Speaker 6:29

And so and the commercials was definitely marketing, right? Yes, visibility.

Speaker 4 6:33

That's what commercials are. That's what they are, right? For marketing.

Speaker 6:36

Former marketing. You see uh billboards, right? That's marketing you see as you're driving around, right? Even the golden arches being placed higher than any other thing that you see, right? You see, like you you can see a whole all these buildings, and you don't really, you know, it's kind of all flat out the same, and all of a sudden you see these golden arches, right? Above them all. That's part of uh the marketing, right? Your visibility.

Speaker 5 7:02

Even the billions served. There's something about that messaging that makes it seem really powerful, because that's the whole point.

Speaker 7:12

I want you to stop using the word messaging though, because that is how people get confused. It's part of it. It sure is. It's part of it, right? But it's it's that that's your copy and things like that. Right. Messaging more so speaks to your brand, right? So how you want to make people feel about you. Your marketing is your visibility and your traffic. Think about marketing also in a way like how you gain the interest, right? How you intrigue people. So one thing that they do with McDonald's as a marketing, which they did with the Happy Mill, is that they would partner with other brands. Disney, Marvel. I remember recently, the last time we went to McDonald's actually was because they um they partnered with uh man, I forgot what brand it was Marvel. I think it was a Marvel thing. It's a Marvel character, and they had like um, man, I can't remember what it is, but the boys saw it, and because they wanted that character and the character Was it the Red Hulk?

Speaker 5 8:09

I don't know.

Speaker 8:10

The Red Hulk, maybe?

Speaker 5 8:11

I'd say it was the Red Hulk.

Speaker 8:13

Let's just say it was I yeah, just so just don't don't check us, don't come for us.

Speaker 4 8:17

Don't come for us, Disney Marvel or McDonald's.

Speaker 8:20

Don't tell us, you know, they don't add us. We don't remember, right? We we we older parents, we in our 40s. It was it was something like that. But I do remember that it was a uh it was some kind of character that they wanted. And they and they did a special thing. It was like the um that's what they wanted it because it wasn't a happy meal. They called it like a mighty meal.

Speaker 5 8:40

Oh maybe that's a clue.

Speaker 8:42

Yeah, but it was like a mighty meal.

Speaker 5 8:43

It was a mighty meal.

Speaker 8:44

And it was, but it was the normal like uh chicken nuggets and fries meal, uh-huh, but they added the happy meal component in that it would come in a box and and you also got a toy or a character with it. So it was that concept. So anyway, that's marketing, right? To say, hey, you you you may get these um you may get this this chicken nugget meal all the time, right? And we, you know, whenever we do, we get there. But we hadn't been to McDonald's in a while. But they gave us a new reason. Here's a new reason to go to McDonald's, right? Here, here's a here's a character that you're already, you maybe you went and saw the show, and now you you know get a toy, that's marketing, right? So that what they use to gain that visibility to bring you in, right? So that that is part of marketing, right? Okay. Um, the next one is design. So design is actually the presentation, right? It's how your brand and your marketing shows up visually, right? And you could even argue even emotionally, right? But it's it's that intentionality around um how things look, how things appear. So when you talk about the McDonald's, you kind of gave that gesture of like the box and things like that.

Speaker 5 9:56

That's why I wanted to stick with the box. I felt like it kind of crossed, checked all those boxes.

Speaker 10:01

That's a design, that's a design element, even how it's made to look like a lunch pail, right? Kind of gives you that that feel, right?

Speaker 5 10:08

Of like that personal little thing that you could tote around.

Speaker 10:12

Tote around, open it up, it's all yours, right? Inside, right? All these goodies.

Speaker 5 10:16

Open the present, right? Open the present.

Speaker 10:20

Exactly, right? That's design, right? Um what's on the outside of it, right? How attractive it is, right? Even like the actual, like, say you were to to um attach a Disney character to it or whatever, then how that Disney character appears on the box, on the packaging, um, all that's design, you know, um, even the the toy itself, you know, like all that stuff, right? Those are your design elements, like how the how the stuff is present. Right? For sure.

Speaker 5 10:49

The yellow invokes happiness, the red, red actually invokes hunger. So it's like the combination of I'm hungry and I know if I go there, maybe I'll get a little happy too.

Speaker 11:02

Yeah, yeah. There's color psychology. I didn't know that red evoked hunger, but yeah, it does. Okay.

Speaker 5 11:06

That's why like um a lot of um like pizzeria will use red. Yeah, Pizza Hut. Pizza Hut, Domino's has red. Uh a lot of restaurants will use red.

Speaker 11:19

Yeah, yeah. So exactly. So there's there's there's there's psychology in that, uh, in the design piece of that. So all those things working together is what pulls you in, you know, if it's done correctly. But if you do one of them not as well, if you do one of them poorly, then it can impact the bottom line, which is your sales. So let's stay with Mc McDonald's, for example.

Speaker 5 11:43

Okay.

The McDonald’s Story: Brand Is Experience

Speaker 11:44

Let's say that their marketing was great in that they had high visibility, high traffic, right? In terms of they they made sure to get the right spots, they knew how to draw you in with that golden arch and all of those good things, right? They did all that the right way, right? And their design was impeccable, as in like, you know, the box, the the all the imagery.

Speaker 5 12:09

It just is like, this is super attractive, super attractive, right?

Speaker 12:12

This is it. However, when you went into the McDonald's, and this actually, actually, uh yeah, we we just went to McDonald's this morning, actually. Now I'm over here like, yeah, because uh the boys had to go, you're like shame. The boys, the boys, we went had soccer.

Speaker 5 12:28

We don't go to McDonald's. We don't, as a matter of fact, we just went this morning.

Speaker 12:31

We just went. Being honest, we went, um, and this is an experience I had, and this is actually why I don't go that often. But we went to the McDonald's and we went because uh the boys need to have some breakfast, and um, I don't have time, so I wanted to herb get them in the car so we can arrive on time. I'll I'm gonna get you food on the way. So, where where would they want to go? If we ask them, it's McDonald's, right? Of course. So we we go to McDonald's. I know what CJ wants. You and I both know what CJ wants, right? Simple order, right? What does Malcolm want? Who knows?

Speaker 5 13:08

Who knows?

Speaker 13:09

Exactly, right? Right?

Speaker 5 13:10

It changes every day.

Speaker 13:13

Exactly, right? So I get up there, I and then she immediately asks me, you know, that one question, like, are you gonna use a coupon or whatever? Uh not coupon, but whatever.

Speaker 5 13:21

Oh, the whatever they say. The app. App, McDonald's app.

Speaker 13:24

I'm like, no, you know, but she's like, I can just tell she's like very rushed. Mind you, one person behind me in line, and the other line is open, right? So it ain't, it ain't busy, it ain't busy, right? But I'm like, no. She's like, what would you like to order? I told her CJ's order, right? And of course they asked, which is appropriate, anything else, because they try to hurry up and close, right? I said, Hold on, give me a moment. And she was like, okay. Turn around, ask Malcolm what he wanted. He's like, I can't see the menu. I'm like, bruh, it ain't it ain't that many options. It don't really. Then she comes out as I'm talking to him. You know, is there anything else she wanted? I said, hold on, give me a second. And she's like, I heard her do that before she went.

Speaker 5 14:10

You heard the sucking of the teeth.

Speaker 14:12

I heard the sucking of the teeth. Now you know, I I'm, you know, I'm a I'm a black parent.

unknown 14:19

Hold on.

Speaker 14:20

That's a trigger. Hold on now. You sound a little young. Don't be sucking your teeth at me, right? So that was already, that was already strike one. Right? So I'm I'm like, hold on. She she muted. I'm like, I'm like, Malcolm. And and I know she can hear me.

Speaker 5 14:37

Exactly.

Speaker 14:37

Because the thing is, like, you while you may be on mute, you can hear me. My mic is on. Exactly. So you hear me talking to this child, right? Said, hey, what would you like? This is the options. Blasi blase. You got uh the egg McMuffin, because we know he don't want no cheese. That's like you want the one with the ham on it, you want a little bacon. Like, what do you want, right?

Speaker 2 14:56

Uh-huh.

Speaker 14:57

You know, you want a bagel? He's like, uh, well, I want no cheese. That's I know you want no cheese. Let's let's focus on what you do want, not what you don't want.

Speaker 5 15:05

I'm sorry, babe. He gets that for me.

Speaker 15:07

I'm like I know so in the size. But me, me pressuring him because you know him, is not gonna necessarily make it happen faster. No, it's just gonna make him frustrated. Yes, and everyone's just gonna be frustrated.

Speaker 5 15:20

Yes.

Speaker 15:20

So as I'm talking to him, she gets on the phone. Um the phone, she gets on the mic again, is like, you know, is there anything else? I was like, I hold on. And then she's like, Man, I you know, she did a little like and then cut herself off. Like, she like she's about to start talking, talking to some.

Speaker 5 15:37

She's probably talking to her coworkers back there.

Speaker 15:40

This dude, yeah, he comes to McDonald's.

Speaker 4 15:42

He should know what I'm saying.

Speaker 15:44

Yeah, it's obvious what he wants. You you know, you've been here. You know, I know we already know the conversation, right? She got all the jokes. She likes me. I don't know, you know. Meanwhile, Malcolm is, you know, he's still unsure. Uh-huh. So then uh while he's still kind of, and I'm just like, okay, I'm not gonna rush him. Next time she comes on, I got a little something for her, right?

Speaker 5 16:07

So then she got the right one. She don't even know.

Speaker 16:11

So then she came back on again, asked again, and I said, Um, I said, I've been clear. Hold on. Right? And then she's like, did it again, little, and I think this time she made sure I heard the because it's like at this point, you three times in a row, you'd have made a little sound that didn't mean you know what you're doing. Right? But I'm like, I'm not gonna even have this, this, this, this tension. Like, it doesn't make sense, right? So finally he gives me his order. I come back on, I say the order. You know what she did, right? As soon as I said the order, what do you think her response was? Did she ask you if you wanted anything else? Nah, she's like, huh? No. She wanna draw it out, you know what I mean? Because she would have now. She went to rush. Now she's like, Yeah, you knew that was gonna happen. You I knew it was gonna happen. I knew she was gonna play, like, huh? Say it again, you know. And so I said the order, then she repeated it back, then she was talking so fast. You know, you know, sometimes you do that, you wanna go, what? And you don't want to say yes because uh, you know, you might miss up. You might be saying yes to something that is totally off. Yes. So I'm like, could you slow it down? I didn't hear you. And then she said it slow, right? But she just, you know how she said it slow, right? No, she didn't go like super slow, did she? She didn't go super slow, but she had that little extra little, you know, little attitude with it, you know. Maybe she's so you ordered a number one, you know. You know, it's it, and I'm not, I'm actually not getting too upset because I kind of I could expect this. Unfortunately, based on the reputation that I've had with McDonald's, it don't matter where really it's been at this point, because I guess who they hire now is just you know, anyone who's young and what an attitude. It's like that's part of the the the interview process. Like, hold on, how are you? You got attitude? Cool, come on. Perfect. You are perfect for this job, right? So, because she was young, she had attitude, and since she's young, I'm I'm not gonna go off on her, right? Um, but I was just like, okay, let me just get through this. So she said it, she said it right. So then I'm like, all right, cool, let's get through. I got to the window, and here's the thing about a lot of people with all the energy behind a mic. You have all that energy behind a mic, but then if I'm looking at you, what happens? It shut down. It's different. It's something different. And maybe because of you know my background, I ain't really that intimidating. I'm sure.

Speaker 4 18:40

Did you give her the principal look? Yeah, you know I did that.

Speaker 18:42

You did, you know, I did that. Okay, I'm a short guy, I'm not that intimidating physically, but however, there's something about the way I look at people. Yes, that lets people know I'm not playing. And I so when I came up around and I looked at her, all of a sudden that energy was way different. It was way different, right? So I gave her a pass. She didn't say nothing, she didn't say sorry, nothing, but she changed her energy, right? So I was cool with that, and so uh paid for it. Um went the next person, actually was kind, young man. He was cool, um, really accommodating. Gave us all our food like right away. Um I was like, okay, cool. Let's let's move on.

Speaker 5 19:24

Did you check the bag?

Speaker 19:25

Hold on. Oh, okay.

Speaker 5 19:27

I always jump in the guy.

Speaker 19:28

You already know. So I asked for uh with her, I asked for a water. So he first gave me um the boys' drinks, the orange juices, and he gave me a bag, and then right before I left, he gave me a large water, like I asked for. I looked at the I looked at it, it was like like wet and like a lot of ice, and I was like, is that water? He's like, Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was like, okay, you know, I'm thinking maybe I'm tripping, right? Put it down there, you know, in the cup holder. We drive, stop somewhere, and I'm like, set the boys up, here's your food, all that stuff. CJ gets his food, he he ordered a sausage egg and muffin with cheese, and I ordered the same thing, right? He bit into it and he was like, and I looked at it and I said, Does that have cheese on it? And he was like, you know, he's playing with it. He's like, nah, no cheese. I said, no cheese? Huh, right? Then I go into the bag and I look, and the two that I ordered with cheese had no cheese on it. There was only one with cheese on it.

Speaker 4 20:36

Malcolms.

Speaker 20:37

No, no, no, it was CJ's. Okay, but I didn't get mine because I wanted mine with cheese. So she got my order wrong, even though she read it right. She put it in the wrong. So that's another strike two. Then um Knock was right, thankfully. Thankfully, because yeah, that would have been alcohol issues. I would have had to go back in. Yes. But his was good. CJ was good. I'm the one that had to sacrifice, right, with the no cheese. Which is I was thought about it. I was like, I don't really need dairy, it's fine. I'll I'll be okay. So everything's cool, everyone's good, everyone's good, everyone's cool. And then the last thing, right after I take that dry piece, that that dry bite, because it ain't got no cheese in them like this, so it was super dry. I go to my drink and I take a sip. And guess what's in there? Sprite? It's not sprite. What is it? What about it? Sparkling water. I don't know. Sparkling water? Yeah.

Speaker 5 21:31

I didn't even know it was sparkling water.

Speaker 21:34

Making up new making up new ways to mess me up. Because it that I would have thought it would have been Sprite, which I wouldn't have been cool with either, because I didn't want Sprite for breakfast. But because it looked like Sprite, and the more I looked at it, I was like, you know, I sipped it, it was just like carbonated water. So technically water. It wasn't what you were expecting. It wasn't what I was expecting. And it's the point is they playing in my face. Yeah. Because I think all of that was intentional. I think the girl intentionally messed up the order because she felt like I was taking too long. So she said, no cheese on it, just to, you know, then give me water, water, right? Sparkling water. Like, which is so odd. I've never had that before, right? So all of that to say, what? That's the experience I had with them. That's the reputation they have. So even if their marketing is good, their design is good, because the branding, which is the reputation and the experience is poor, it resulted in us not going as frequently as we used to. Now, obviously, we still patronize the business, but the more that they keep having those kind of interactions, the less we go. And it's just gonna like now, you know, because I don't want to go and be frustrated.

Speaker 5 22:48

No, I don't want to go and like have to deal with all this stuff and go back and make sure my order's right and all that. This is it's too much.

Speaker 22:56

That's brand. That's your brand. So even though like so, so we we let's let's apply this to small business, right? So you can you can take that same example and and and think about a small business and how people get things this wrong when it comes to branding, design, and marketing. Okay,

Rebranding Myths And Offer Readiness

Speaker 23:17

so common mistakes when people think about um like rebranding, right? What do they normally do right away?

Speaker 5 23:28

Well, they usually want to get a new logo. They're like, I need new colors, I need a new logo, I need a new look.

Speaker 23:36

Yes, exactly, right? Which, you know, can be part of the brand, but really, if you're focusing on rebranding, then what are you really actually supposed to be focusing on? Based based on the definition that we have.

Speaker 5 23:51

You shouldn't be focusing on a new experience that you're giving to your customer base.

Speaker 23:59

Exactly. You should be focused on now. Sometimes the new experience does mean that you a better experience. Yes, a new experience, new better experience. Sometimes it does mean that you do change how you look, how you present, but that's more of your design, right? That's that's what you're actually changing. Yeah, you're redesigning, right? Rebranding is the experience, right? Um, if if if someone comes to like, let's say another common missed mistake, um if if they're like, hey, I want to get um a lot more sales, right? And the way to do that is for me to get a lot more people to see my offer. And then we go, okay, cool. Have you uh, you know, how many sales have you already made of your offer? And they go, oh, uh not not many. Um you know, I don't really, it doesn't sell very, very often. Right?

Speaker 5 24:56

I'm just thinking like, because some people will be like, um, you know, I don't it's a new offer.

Speaker 25:04

It's a new offer, yeah.

Speaker 5 25:05

I don't have any sales yet.

Speaker 25:06

No sales. And the first thing they're thinking about is what? They want to get a whole bunch of people to see it. Tell me why that may be a mistake.

Speaker 5 25:17

Well, they haven't tested the offer first. You gotta you gotta try and make sure it works. You have to make sure people want it. Make sure people will spend money on it.

Speaker 25:29

Yes, because if you do that, if you you can get a lot of people to notice it, but if it's not any good or people don't want it, then you're not gonna get the result you want. Right. And people do that a lot.

Speaker 5 25:41

Yeah, they'll spend a lot of time and money. Yes, they'll invest, thinking, this is such a great idea. You know, everybody will want this. And after spending all that time and money and putting it out there, it's like, oh, you know, I'm not getting any sales. Something, something's not working.

Speaker 26:02

Something's something's off. Yeah, right. How many times we we know, we know, we won't name any names or anything like that, but we know situations where people do get a lot of traffic, a lot of visibility, right? A lot of so so their marketing is working in the sense that they're getting eyeballs, but it's not converting, right? And sometimes the reason why it's not converting is because they're not being clear, you know, with their messaging. People don't really understand their brand. They haven't established a brand. That part right there. Yeah. You you're going to so like I always say this, and we say this to our clients. Before you get everyone to come and run and see what you're up to, make sure what you're up to is worth seeing. I mean, I know it, I know that's a I know I'm gonna get in trouble for this. Like, people don't really, they're gonna be like, ah, no, no, that makes sense. Let me let me let me explain why that makes sense.

The Showcase Test Before You Scale

Speaker 26:57

Let's say, for example, you are you're a singer. Let me just give this analogy.

Speaker 5 27:02

Okay.

Speaker 27:02

You just started singing, you just started really being good at it. Or to your in your mind, you're good at it, right? Good enough to share. But no one's ever heard you, right? And so you decide though that you want to have a showcase of your talent. No one's ever heard you, it's just been you, right? But you feel like you're good enough.

Speaker 5 27:23

You feel like you're Whitney. You feel like you're Whitney.

Speaker 27:26

Uh-huh. Can't nobody tell you different. When you hear playback, you hear Whitney. Like, I'm I don't know.

Speaker 5 27:32

I know I sound like he always doesn't have to be.

Speaker 27:34

There's no difference between me and her, right? That's that's how you feel, right? And you've but you've never performed in front of anyone, right? You you don't know what that experience is, you don't know how people react, you've never gotten that feedback, right? And you decide that the first performance you want to do is one where you invite a thousand people to see it. Right? A thousand.

Speaker 4 27:56

You better be you better back it up, be real confident with that. Real confident, right?

Speaker 28:03

And people are, you confident. You got hey, you thousands of people showed up and they come to hear you and you start singing, and it's crickets. Ain't no applause, ain't no smiling. Matter of fact, most people are kind of some people are whispering, start laughing. How's that gonna feel?

Speaker 4 28:24

Well, not so good. Not good, right? Embarrassing. Exactly.

Speaker 28:29

And if we knew ahead of time that that was gonna likely be an outcome, we would caution you to say, don't do that. Right. Please don't do that to yourself. Please don't take that kind of like that's that's please don't do that, right? We would say, hey, why don't you sing for me right now? Just me and you. I'll tell you, I'll give you some feedback, right? Sing for just a few people. Why don't you just go to that coffee shop that got like five people in it and sing there? See how they react. We would we would tell them to measure themselves, right? And to be like thinking through that. And that's good advice. But we don't do that in on online marketing for some reason. We tell people, go ahead. Yeah, get as many people as you can to see this, and it's not proven, and then wonder why you get no sales.

Speaker 5 29:17

I see it all the time. Yes, I see it all the time. All the time. People will be like, um, what I see pretty often online is somebody, somebody will be like, I want to start a business and I'm thinking about this particular type of business, and then people will be like, do it, you know, just like go for it, do it. And it's like, you know, how are you gonna structure this business? How you have no plans for it. You just no plans, you just want to do it, you think it's a good idea because you see everybody else doing it.

Speaker 29:55

And I want and I want to and I want to add some caution here because I can already hear people being like, oh, these are some some haters, right? Because I you should just do it, right? Why not? You know, you you should just go for it. Because there's a lot of that advice. Just go for it, just go see what sticks. Why not try it? All these different things. But here's the reality like it's hard to do business, and a lot of businesses are not successful. And but you just throw stuff out there, and most people, number one, don't have the money to continue to throw at something and hoping it works.

Speaker 5 30:30

That's my point. It's like people don't understand what it takes to get something to stick, to actually work the investment, uh, not just monetary investment, but like, you know, thinking through your entire plan and structuring, getting a lot of people will do it without even knowing their target audience.

Speaker 30:52

They don't know their audience, they don't know their offer, they haven't established a brand, and they feel like at some point it's just gonna work, it'll start to click. The the truth is, oftentimes it will likely not click until you fix these fundamental things. Right. Right.

Foundation First Before Buying Traffic

Speaker 31:10

And just because you have a good design, because sometimes you'll hear us say, you know, you need to have better design, that doesn't necessarily mean that that people are going to buy it either. Right. Now here's the thing, because we've seen this. We hey, we've we'll hook you up with an amazing design. Like you, you, you looking amazing out there. Like you look like you you on par with anybody who you're trying to compare yourself to, right? At least visually. But if you don't have a good brand, as in people don't know you, you may not convert still, even with the good design. You'll attract them, they'll visually be like attracted to it, but then they may not feel the substance. We can't help with that. But if you want our help, we can tell you how. And so let's say you have the branding and you have the design, so you got the reputation, you're good, good look and everything. What's the next problem sometimes? Sometimes your revenue is stifled because you don't have enough traffic. That means you need help with marketing, right? That means you need help with visibility, and that is, you know, sometimes sometimes we put the cart before the horse. Right. From the way we, our perspective, now you're gonna hear different things from different people.

Speaker 4 32:19

Especially in online.

Speaker 32:21

You're gonna hear different things from different people. But our perspective is to build a foundation um first before you try to get all the traffic. Because some people think they assume that the market will correct it for you. As in the more visibility you get, you're gonna get sales just by nature of like law of averages, and you'll just get better because you'll have a whole bunch of people giving you feedback and you'll eventually get better. That assumes that you have an endless amount of money to spend on getting eyeballs.

Speaker 5 32:55

Yeah, because it costs to attract. You gotta either pay for ads, you have to, you know, send out postcards to this local businesses. That all that, if you're doing uh uh mailers, all that costs money. All that costs money. If you're buying um, you know, a spot on a podcast to sponsor a podcast, that costs money.

Speaker 33:21

Whatever it is, whatever it is, a table, whatever, like all these different things cost, but if you don't have the foundation, it's not gonna result in the things that you hope that it will. Right. You gotta have the foundation. Yes. So, how do we build the foundation? You want me to say?

Speaker 5 33:38

Yeah, I want you to go. You're on the roll. But

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Speaker 5 33:41

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Speaker 34:44

All right. So what

Brand Clarity Through A Restaurant Lens

Speaker 34:45

you gotta do is you gotta start with brand clarity. Right? You gotta be clear about what you stand for, who you're serving, right? What you wanna be known for, the kind of experience you want your clients to have. Like that's that's the stuff that's foundational. Branding is the foundation of any business. One thing that I I I when you whenever you see like uh what's the name? The Prophet, um, that guy, um Marcus Lamonis, I think. Yes, yeah. And or any of those other shows, like when they kind of come in and they help out a company that's not doing well. The one of the first things that they do is focus on like branding, right? Getting clear about what they're doing, who they're serving, and the experience. I think about like I watch uh Gordon Ramsey Kitchen Nightmares, right? People you know come in and he's looking at everything. He's looking at what? He's looking at the presentation. Yes, he's looking at everything, he's like, okay, how are they presenting? Sometimes it presents well, sometimes it doesn't.

Speaker 5 35:49

The customers' reactions, looking at the customer experience, looking at the waiters, how they interact with the people. What is that?

Speaker 35:57

That's the brand. He's looking at the brand, right? Yes, he's like, okay, how is this, you know, how he doesn't say the word brand, but that's what he's looking at. Right. Right. He's looking at all that, right? He he oftentimes marketing is is is is an issue because sometimes they have low foot traffic, but sometimes they don't. Sometimes they get they get plenty of people, but people just aren't happy, right? Right. And so they're losing money. That one point they had lots of visibility, but it's starting to dwindle, or maybe they're still highly visible. People know who they are, but they just ain't trying to rock with them. So, what does he do? He comes in, he he deals with the culture, he deals with how people are treating each other, how they're treating their their cli uh customers, the experience they have because that nasty food ain't gonna work no more. Right? So we give them some some good food with some salt. Right, and then he does a he he has them go away and they come back and then a new design, right?

Speaker 5 36:54

And they walk in and they're like, Oh my god, the presentation and they start crying because they feel that new experience, they feel that new design is emotional, exactly. That's right.

Speaker 37:08

Design is emotional, it's emotional. So they he gets that. Okay, now we got now. It starts to feel like you maybe your your theme was supposed to be an English pub, and like now it starts to feel like one because it looks like one, right? But then what do you add that with? You couple that with the experience of the food and the people and all that stuff, and now you have a brand. And then once that's established and he knows that's good, what does he do? He goes and markets, he goes and tells everybody. Brings the people back in. Like, hey, everybody, you know, I'm here, you know, and it's lit now, it tastes good. I promise that's right. You see the order of it? Yeah, that's it, man. And and the thing is, when whenever we say these things, people be thinking that we just be just talking because we're bread. No, we try to tell y'all the truth. We try to tell you the truth.

Speaker 5 37:56

We're trying to, we're trying to really help y'all because and it works regardless of industry, right? Like, because we deal with mostly speakers, authors, entrepreneurs, but even in that whole Gordon Ramsay restaurant scenario, you can apply the same thing.

Speaker 38:15

Exactly. So people come to us and they ask us for help. We talk about those things. Sometimes they only want us to focus on the design. And we can do that all day. And we will. But if you're we go back to the example of the restaurant, if your food is not good and the experience isn't good and your customer service is bad, even if I renovate this restaurant, ooh, and it looks nicer, it doesn't mean that your brand has changed. So when people come to us and they say, I need help with with design and I need help with branding, then we go, okay, let's look at your offer. Let's look at what you're offering. Let's look at who you're offering it to. What's your messaging? How are you handling this? What do you normally do in these situations?

Speaker 5 38:55

Right. Because it's like, who are you designing this for?

Speaker 38:59

Yeah.

Speaker 5 38:59

You know, you that's that's one of the the big misconceptions around design, right? You can just create something or you can create something with a specific audience in mind. Yeah. Right. Target it to them. Yes. So that they can evoke some type of emotion and rock with your business a little longer.

Speaker 39:19

That's it. So just to bring it home, your brand is your foundation.

Practical Fixes For Design And Funnels

Speaker 39:25

Right. Your design is the architecture, right? Like the how things look, right? Um, your marketing is your your traffic, right? It's gonna be uh what what helps you kind of drive the sales, visibility, all those things, but the sales won't happen if these other things aren't in place. So I could I could say, okay, let's say you get high traffic, high visibility, but you know, when you go into the restaurant, it looks like a hole in the wall and sketchy. You may not want to spend money there. It's like, all right, is there food?

Speaker 5 40:08

Is it a meat refrigerator?

Speaker 40:11

The design element, right? And the thing is, even if someone's like, even if the brand is good in that they're like, no, that hey, these people, it's really good food. And they're telling you that, and you're you and you're and the the person you see is nice, you may still still spill spend money there, but I would say to that business, you're probably not maximizing the amount of revenue you can get because you have this one area here that's turning people off. So if you spent money on the design, you would actually attract more people. You wouldn't, it wouldn't be, you wouldn't get less. Right? People would be like, oh, it looks too nice in here.

Speaker 4 40:46

I'm not gonna easily says no one.

Speaker 40:48

Exactly. It says no one, right? And that's the same thing with your business when it comes to you as a speaker, author, coach, like to your point, like a consultant or anything like that, right? Like our clients that we get, um, they're often already established, they've had sales, but they realize that they got into a place where their designs um need a level up because while they're getting some sales, they know that some are falling through the cracks because they're getting judged on their outdated website, on their outdated branding materials. And that's no shade. People shouldn't take shade. Like you not a designer, so don't feel no type of way about that. Just go get the help. That's right. Right? Or, you know, they may feel like, hey, they gotta, well, we don't, this doesn't happen too often. But most because most times people are really just coming to us for design. But there are some times where they actually have a solid design and you know, decent marketing, but their experience, so like the the automation, the funnel doesn't work. The funnel is not funneling, the funnel's not funneling, they're not getting the emails firing off, like it's it's confusing, right? If you know the stuff isn't is it's not happening the right way. So they come to us to fix it. So we we we will do that too. We fix people's funnels to be like, okay, in your in your current process, for someone to go from interest to purchasing, it takes six steps or six clicks. Let's get this down to two clicks. Just by simply doing that, making it easier for people to pay them, they can see an increase in their sales. Right. Right?

Speaker 5 42:22

Depending on what it is, depending on what it is. But that's sometimes six clicks, you know, sometimes it'll work.

Speaker 42:27

I'm no, no, it they were, it did work. Like they were still getting money. But the point is, is that if they wanted more, they realized that they probably should make it a better experience. Right. And they're right. And that's why they came to us to make it a better experience. So here's the thing. I mean, if you're stuck, um, if there's business owners out there and you're stuck and and and you're trying to figure out how you can get more sales, you gotta ask yourself, are you missing clarity? Right? Are you is your brand um you know not clear? Um, is it your presentation? Is it the design? Is it how things look and how things appear? Um, or is it the amount of traffic? Are you not getting enough people to see it? Because those are the things that you want to figure out uh before you start throwing money everywhere. You you want to sort that out. Um, and you shouldn't confuse uh some of those symptoms um, you know, with what what the solution may be, as in, you know, just because you don't have um enough leads doesn't necessarily mean um that you need to have more um more marketing or more traffic in that moment, right? I mean, well, leads, yes, leads are you know, you you use marketing for the leads, but you still want the foundation first. Because for me personally, before I get anyone to come see what I'm doing and what I'm on, I want to make sure it's right. Because you can blow a lot of those leads, right? So I wouldn't worry about getting a whole bunch of leads if you don't have the foundation set. Set the foundation, and then you can you can get the leads. And then it's say you're getting leads. Say you're getting leads now and you have some of that, but you're not converting, then you got to be thinking about what is that experience people are having? What's the brand that I have? Have I established a brand yet?

Speaker 5 44:08

Right. It's like don't throw money at marketing if your brand isn't ready to convert. There it is. Right? You got to fix the root before you fix the fruit. Hey, there you go.

How To Work With Us

Speaker 5 44:20

So if you're ready to get your brand to convert, hit us up at Panda Commission.

Speaker 44:24

And if you're ready to get to the root, as in to solve that problem, whatever it is, if it's your brand, if it's your design, if you're marketing, hit us up. You leave, leave, leave a comment in the chat. Let's let's talk about it. Let's let's let's figure it out. Um, now I I can't say I'm gonna give a full-blown consultation in the chat or in the comments, uh, but you could definitely hit us up for a discovery call if you want, so we could talk it through, or you can uh go to our website, pandacommission.com, if you want to inquire about our services. Uh, we'd love to have you a part of our panda family. You can also like uh this video if you found value. You can subscribe to our channel. You can find us anywhere on social media just by searching Panda Commission. Uh, we on uh Instagram, Facebook, obviously YouTube, and just now on TikTok, right? We got TikTok.

Speaker 4 45:09

I know.

Speaker 45:11

So you can find us in all those different places. We'd love for you for you to be a part of our panda fam.

Speaker 5 45:24

What

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Speaker 5 45:25

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